Village Square II
In our AcimVillage, we have the plane tree that stands in the central village square. Its enormous branches spread out to cover an area wide enough to provide shade on a warm day for many a traveller or tradesman. Water bubbles and trickles from a stone fountain on the eastern side. It is under the plane tree and by the fountain that wandering sages have traditionally lead conversation with the local people, before setting off again on their way; it is here that the townspeople come to exchange views and thoughts on their beloved spiritual philosophy, learning from each other in kindness and wisdom.
Rules to ponder…
Study of A Course In Miracles benefits greatly from sharing our experiences in its practice. Here you can talk about what works, or doesn’t, for you, taking obvious care not to be ‘preachy’, please. We all learn best when someone talks from their own experience, rather than tries to tell us what we should be doing differently. Let’s take the position that none of us are teachers, we are all at the same point returning on the path Homeward. All of us will still be making mistakes for a while yet, so let’s be particularly humble and caring in how we deal with each other. Please keep in mind that this is a site dedicated to the approach Kenneth Wapnick takes to teaching ACIM. I shall certainly do my best to bring everyone back to the core principles as taught by him.
I would also like to point out that AcimVillage is the place to come to explore our judgments, but not to express them as judgments. If you feel you need to gripe, criticize and vent, even subtly, then contact me privately (at bernard@pauloandthemagician.com) where I will receive you with kindness and understanding. Please do not do so in the forums where I will inevitably moderate out this kind of post. Remember, you will feel better only when you are able to move past the investment in your judgments, not simply by unloading them for everyone to see. This means taking responsibility for your perceptions and acknowledging that ultimately no one has prevented you from feeling completely peaceful and safe, despite what might appear to be the unfortunate conditions of your life at this time. (I know, this is hard. Contact me if you’re struggling.)
So, two basic rules here. One, we avoid mention of other approaches to the study of ACIM (non-Wapnickian) as well as to other philosophies we might be studying. This is purely to achieve a stable, comfortable learning forum where we are all aiming at the same goal, using the same symbols and language to get there. This is not to cast any judgment on any other approaches or philosophies. ACIM is a sufficiently difficult path to undertake without bringing more confusion into our study than our minds already contain! If you have benefited from other paths and would like to share your thoughts, by all means do so. Just please do this in the privacy of your personal emails. It’s also my personal opinion (take it or leave it) that at some point a student of ACIM is much better off sticking with one set of symbols and one teacher, and working with these thoroughly, instead of getting too dispersed. Rule two, we try not to play ‘teacher’ with each other here, reminding ourselves to be humble and always equal with our brother.
Enjoy the discussion!
New Horizons
As of September, 2010, I’m proposing a direction for our study of the Course, which is to work together through Ken’s workshop The Meaning of Judgment. We’ll be using his transcript notes for this taken from the Foundation’s website (see link in the tool bar at the top of the page). Below you’ll find the notes for the section we’re currently working on. For previous sections, click on the ‘ACIM’ tab on the navigation bar, and then hover your mouse over the ‘Meaning of Judgment’ tab to choose the relevant section. I chose this particular workshop because it gets immediately into the real heart and practice of the Course while taking us through its basic principles at the same time. So, for those interested in finding out where the ‘rubber hits the road’, even though it might get a little confronting at times, then join us on this little adventure Homewards!
The Meaning of Judgment
Excerpts from the Workshop held at the
Academy & Retreat Center of the Foundation for A Course in Miracles
PART III
“THE FORGIVING DREAM” (T-29.IX), cont.
(3:1) All figures in the dream are idols, made to save you from the dream.
1. Everything we perceive and believe is outside us is part of the dream. These are the idols, and their purpose is to make the outside dream real to protect us from the dream within our minds, which we do not want to look at. Course students compromise this over and over again by trying in whatever way they can to make some aspect of the external dream reality. That is why many students place such great emphasis on seeing Jesus or the Holy Spirit as doing things for them in the world. That is a subtle way of making Them part of the illusion, whereas in the Course Jesus asks us to take the illusion to the truth, not to bring the truth to the illusion. We have a strong investment in making the outside dream real, because if it is real outside, we do not have to look at the dream within our minds. What better way to make it seem real than to have God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit operate in it?
2. That is why it is a mistake to confuse A Course in Miracles with New Age thought systems. The Course in no way compromises the truth that the entire physical universe is an illusion. But we want to make the figures in the dream reality, including the Holy Spirit and Jesus so we are protected from the underlying dream inside our minds.
(3:2) Yet they [all of these idols] are part of what they have been made to save you from.
3. These idols were made to save us from the idol we made within our own minds (the ego thought system) that says, “I have stolen from God and I now exist. I have what I have stolen. I no longer have to give it back, and I exist on my own. And now God exists outside me.” The ego begins with that initial thought of judgment, which is the beginning of the dream. It then becomes a full-blown dream within our minds that we are different from God, that we have stolen from God and sinned against Him. And our guilt over this now tells us God will punish us. This is the terrifying dream within our own minds. It is so terrifying that we do not look at it, but project it so that it now seems to be outside us. And anything that roots us further in the dream outside will nicely serve the ego’s purpose, even if it goes under the name of God, which is what religions have done for centuries. It is extremely tempting for people to do the same thing with A Course in Miracles — to bring part of the truth into the illusion, making the illusion real. If you do that, you will never get out of the dream, because you will not know it is only a dream.
(3:3) Thus does an idol keep the dream alive and terrible, for who could wish for one unless he were in terror and despair?
4. The “you” Jesus is referring to in these passages is the mind, the part of the mind that chooses — what I refer to as the decision maker. It is the part of our minds that has first identified with the ego thought system. It is a thought system of terror and despair that tells us we need to protect ourselves from the terror and despair by denying it, which means we would never look at it again. And then we project it and see it outside ourselves. That is why we need a world of specific people and specific objects. We project all of these thoughts of sin, guilt, and judgment so they are no longer seen within, but outside. As long as we believe in the reality of the idol, we will never know that the idol really rests within our own minds.
(3:4) And this the idol [anything in the world outside of us] represents, and so its worship is the worship of despair and terror, and the dream from which they come.
5. This is true for the idols of specialness we think are wonderful and make us happy as well as the idols of specialness we hate. Earlier in the text, in “The Obstacles To Peace” (T-19.IV), Jesus speaks about this in another form: “While you believe that it [the body] can give you pleasure, you will also believe that it can bring you pain” (T-19.IV-A.17:11). Pleasure and pain are opposite sides of the same illusion. Both of them make the body real because both say there is something outside us that can make us either happy or unhappy and bring us pain. The truth is that the only thing that can bring us happiness is choosing the Love of the Holy Spirit. The only thing that can bring us pain is choosing the ego. That is all. There is nothing else.
6. The lines here represent the same idea. That is why we become so invested in the world. It is easy to fall into this trap, even as a student of a course that teaches that there is no world, for we still believe that external behaviors somehow mean something. They mean nothing in and of themselves. Their meaning lies only in what meaning we give them. What is important is never anything external — not what bodies do or do not do — but our internal decision to choose either the ego and separation, or Jesus and joining. Once we focus our attention outside and believe what we do is important, helpful, healing, or loving, we are getting caught in specialness, worshipping the idol of specialness. We will think that we are serving a function of healing or love, but it really is an idol of despair and terror.
7. In worshipping the idols of specialness outside, we are worshipping not only terror, despair, and guilt, but the whole dream, of which terror, despair, and guilt are only components. We are worshipping the dream that we have what we have stolen from God and will never give it back, for now we exist as individuals on our own. We love terror, despair, and guilt, or we would not feel them all the time. We love them because they make real the thought of separation — the thought of the original judgment against God — which makes real our separate existence from God. That is why we have such a tremendous investment in our self-importance, in being a unique individual — it establishes that the dream is real. The state of terror or despair in our minds says the dream is real; the guilt and the sin are both real.
(3:5) Judgment is an injustice to God’s Son, and it is justice that who judges him will not escape the penalty he laid upon himself within the dream he made.
8. It is important to realize that the entire thought system of the ego is real within itself. It is not reality, but within the dream itself it is all very real. When we sleep at night and dream, we will experience the dream as very real. This entire world is a dream. As Jesus explains elsewhere (e.g., T-18.II.7-14), there is no difference between what we call our sleeping dreams and what he refers to as our waking dreams, such as we are experiencing right now. They are all the same — just different expressions of the thoughts within our minds. Within the ego dream, the fear of punishment is very real. Within that dream, our fear of experiencing harm — physical or emotional — is very real. We are not asked, as students of A Course in Miracles, to deny what our experiences are. We are asked, however, not to make these experiences reality. There is a crucial difference between those two approaches.
9. In other words, we all experience fear, and we believe our fear is due to something external to us that can impinge upon us. The ego interprets this as the wrath of God visited upon us — that is our experience. We may not consciously experience it as God’s wrath, but we certainly do experience fear as caused by something external to us. Remember, our own bodies are just as external to our minds as everyone else’s body is. But that does not make it reality. That is where the Christian Churches were mistaken; they took their experience of fear and wrote a theology about it. They said this is the reality of God: God sees our sin as real and has a plan to help us atone for it, basically a plan of murder. The plan then becomes one of suffering and sacrifice. If we believe we are sacrificing so God won’t be angry at us, then we will feel good about sacrificing. But that does not make it reality. Our experience is that the sun rises and sets but that does not make it reality. In reality, it is the earth rotating on its own axis that makes it appear as if the sun moves around the earth. And in fact, it is the earth that moves around the sun. Similarly, people may experience the Holy Spirit or Jesus doing things for them in the world, but that does not mean that they really are. Don’t confuse your experience with reality. The ego always interprets our experiences in order to construct a theology that serves its purposes, which of course is why we have the experience in the first place. Within our dream, whenever we make a judgment we are asserting that we are different from God; we have separated from Him, sinned against Him, and have stolen from Him. Our guilt over that will then demand that we not escape the penalty of God’s anger. This whole world, which is a world of change and death, then stands as the witness to the fact that what the ego has taught us is true. If our existence, which we call life, was ultimately stolen from God, then when God steals back the life we stole from Him we will be without life, which means we will be dead. That is the ego’s interpretation of our death.
(3:6) God knows of justice, not of penalty.
10. God’s justice of course has nothing to do with justice as we think of it. God’s justice states that nothing happened. If nothing happened, there is no guilt and no punishment. (3:7) But in the dream of judgment you attack and are condemned; and wish to be the slave of idols, which are interposed between your judgment and the penalty it brings. But we are not condemned by God. We are condemned by the projection of our own guilt, which makes up a God Who is angry. We then deny the whole dynamic and make up a world in which we are continually condemning and judging others, while believing they condemned and judged us first. But our judgment is within our minds; that is our guilt. We project it out and make up a world of idols that will punish us; and we actually think there is a world out there that affects us. This is all part of the dream, which seems very real from within the dream.
(giggling at the thought of everyone squeezed into my campervan)….Let me see – yup …youse all fit ! { beams with joy} and these woolly skins are so cozy to sit on…..
Well it`s a beautiful morning here over here. I just love being able to chat to my friends while i drink my morning tea. I`m staying in a dear little country town within sight of the beautiful Bunya mountains….
It`s Easter Monday morning AND for us Aussies it`s also a very special day – ANZAC Day { the Australian and New Zealand version of the day we celebrate the glory of war)so i`m thinking of our beloved AL and sending her love..
There`s no point in beating about the bush – we love war – so we might as well just get on with enjoying the glorifying `n all……. Besides after the march past there`s free morning tea in the School of Arts hall…..
There`s only 3 shops in this little town so they really welcome travellers and allow caravanners to stay in the local park for 48 hours simply for a donation. You can even plug into power, which i am loving, since i don`t yet have the adaptor for my laptop. On my little walks around the place, i discovered 3 churches and wanted to go yesterday, Easter Sunday to the Church of England which was where i was confirmed as a young person. Unfortunately the minister was away.
My motivation was very naughty. The Anglican church is very similar to the Catholic church wherein one takes communion. That`s the “holiest” part – and the whole service leads up to the eating of the consecrated wafer and wine, representing the body and blood of Jesus.
The last time i took Communion was over 40 years ago and i loved the “holiness” of it. This time i wanted to go, to wickedly delight in how much i secretly love cannibalizing Jesus, which i would have unscrupulously enjoyed….ooooh i just love the evil me !
Well i`ve finished my pot of tea and must be off…. Have a wonderful day beloved Villagers xoxoxoxoxooxoxoxoxooxooxox
LOL Winnie, Glad to hear your having fun on road tripping about Australia. And a Lovely Easter Sunday/Monday to all.
Beautiful posts dear Villagers ! Thank You and Happy Easter.
Now i need some explanations to cannibalizing. How are we cannibalizing jesus?? or each other(must be the same?)Is this the same concept as invading each other?
And Winnie – i learn so much from your willingness to love the naughty you. I think I feel a victim of the naughty me – and I am so eager to judge her to be ” a good girl.” At least, I can forgive myself for still wanting to be a good girl ( and silently despising myself for that.)
Lol….great post Winnie! Nina, we “cannibalize” Jesus by eating the consecrated wafer, which, (after going through catholic schooling for twelve years) is “changed” to the “body and blood of Christ” during mass.
One of the many ways we “cannibalize” each other, is by eating fish, meat, carrots, raisins, marshmallows, delicious biscuits…. really anything that *we think *we must depend on for survival. We’re not guilty sinners, just minds, outside of time and space dreaming and believing we’re bodies, and this is just what bodies do….
Thank you for this question, Nina, as all questions are everyone’s questions, and because it brought up something in me, I found this excerpted answer from #448 from the Q/A from facim.org. As always, Ken can explain much better than *I. This helped to clarify for me, hopefully it does for you, too. I was trying to find the word “cannibalize” but couldn’t. Below is the excerpted answer.
A few brief thoughts to expand on that: Although the world itself is illusory, we still experience it as real, and so Jesus teaches us in that context to concentrate only on the purpose we give the world and our bodies: to reinforce our belief that there is life here, or to learn that “There is no life outside of Heaven” (T.23.II.19:1). If this world is fundamentally illusory, then nothing here is either holy or unholy. So if you were to concentrate on the purpose for which you use the world and the body, you would not get caught up in the kinds of issues that are bothering you.
Moreover, a careful examination of our world would reveal that its basic operating principle is kill or be killed. It is a murderous system through and through. Survival of both “living” and “non- living” things in the world is always at the expense of something else. Even breathing results in the death of microorganisms; we kill insects, fungi, viruses, and bacteria all the time in order to stay healthy and to produce healthy fruits and vegetables, etc.; we never feel sorry for the thousands of termites we destroy to prevent our homes from being destroyed. And, to bring in the metaphysics of the Course again, if everything is just a fragment of the one ego (a thought, actually), then it does not matter whether you devour an apple, a lobster, alfalfa sprouts, or an animal; nor does it make any difference whether you cut down trees in order to have lumber for your house, or use the wool from sheep to make clothing. Nothing here is real; there is no hierarchy of illusions.
The ego’s first law of chaos is that there is such a hierarchy, which results in a very complicated life for all of us: different and competing standards and values and, above all, constant preoccupation with issues in the world and our bodies. That is the ego’s secret motive for promoting a hierarchy of values in the world. It keeps the world and our existence in it quite real, which means the ego’s existence is guaranteed. Issues such as vegetarianism are smokescreens produced by the ego to keep us from going back to our minds, where the one and only problem and its solution exist.
Thus, if you bring everything back to purpose, you will be able to work with your concerns more effectively. Purpose is the only meaningful aspect of these issues that you should consider. Concentrating only on that will help you get in touch with the ego’s secret strategy, which is always to keep you from your mind where you always can choose conflict or peace as your identity — the ego or Jesus as your teacher.
Here is another one, too from facim.org that resonates with me in regard to looking honestly at my hate (in the myriad of illusory forms this comes in.) 🙂
I’m posting as it includes the word cannibalize, which hopefully aids in the definition of the same word. It ALWAYS gets back to the choice in the non temporal mind for the Teacher of Love…or the teacher of fear.
Q #443: Nothing in A Course in Miracles says we can’t have preferences. This is consistent with the concept of forgiveness, because accepting a preference is clearly a way of temporarily accepting and forgiving the perception of degrees of illusion. Therefore, if I like French-fries but hate carrots, I should not be concerned about it because that would just validate the illusion. I understand that — for now — I’ve dreamed up a body, which needs food, and prefers certain types of food. It is all just orders of magnitude of illusion, so just forgive it, right? Obviously, to feel guilt about my “tastes” simply feeds the cycle of guilt/ projection/attack.
What if I like white people but hate people of other color? Or vice-versa? Would Course theology not advocate forgiving ourselves this kind of perception of differences also? We cannot say this is “more important.” No illusion is “more important.” We cannot say that people are our “brothers” and French-fries are not: they are all just forms in a world of forms. Granted I should not project hate and guilt onto people of any color. But I should not project hate and guilt onto vegetables of any color either. Both call for forgiveness, neither is “greater” or “more important” … Is it?
A: Yes, you are quite right. There is no difference between a carrot and a human being, except in the meaning we have given each. Think back to the earliest workbook lessons and how we are asked to apply the idea for the day indiscriminately to everything in our field of vision or in our mind, not excluding anything (W.p.I.1,2,3,4). You even might say, when it comes to vegetables, we are kinder to the ones we hate, because we’re much less likely to eat them than the ones we like. But, of course, it’s the people we “love” whom we cannibalize as well, so we can feel better about ourselves and fill the emotional hole in the center of our being, at least temporarily — much as food satisfies our hunger only for a short time before we need to go seeking for more.
It is hard not to allow the “accepted moral judgments” of the ego to creep into our understanding of the Course’s teachings. The Course in fact does not say that we should not hate our brothers, be they homo sapiens or carrots. Rather, its goal is to help us uncover our guilt, wherever it may be projected, so that it can be undone. So we don’t want to try to stop hating certain people or overlook our strong feelings of dislike towards certain vegetables, but rather to be honest with ourselves about our hatreds so we can ask for help in seeing, not only the other but ourselves differently, since we are observing only our own self-hatred projected outward.
I apparently can lose my peace of mind as easily over a carrot as I can over a person I don’t like whom I see as different from me. And yet it is not the other that has upset me — “I am never upset for the reason I think” (W.pI.5) — they simply become the scapegoat to blame for the consequences of the decision I have made within my own mind to see myself as separate from love, convince myself I really have pulled that off, pile the guilt on, and then look to find someone or something else to blame for my unhappy state of mind. A carrot or a different-colored person can serve that purpose equally well.
The distinction you make at the beginning of your question is a helpful one. We all have preferences and that is simply part of the experience of living as a body in the world. But if the preferences become emotionally invested, that simply means we have given greater meaning to those particular symbols in our experience, so that they seem now to be the cause of our dissatisfaction. But with the Holy Spirit’s assistance, they can become instead the mirrors that direct us back within our own minds to the real source of dissatisfaction, our choice for the very empty and unfulfilling ego thought system. And it is that choice we want to forgive ourselves for, with the help of Jesus or the Holy Spirit.
Melody great Ken Answer. Here’s my 2 cents on cannibalize. Cannibalism is the magical belief that one can acquire the attributes of another by ingesting their body. Mostly attributes pertaining to strength and usually of a human eating another human as in ;This man was the other tribes greatest warrior and very cunning and now that we managed to subdue him we will(in a twisted way)honor him and add his strength and cunning to ourselves by eating him. Eating his brain gives you his mental abilities/cunning.
The next is when eating an animal or certain body parts to acquire what it supposedly has more of than you do. the speed of the deer or sexuality a body part represents.
The next more subtle is eating plants; garlic has the power to ward off vampires and colds that I don’t have, so if I eat garlic I acquire it’s attributes for myself.
The next subtle shift for the more squeamish that couldn’t handle eating said body part or plant is to smear it on your body example blood or mustard plasters
then the wearing of charms and amulets; lucky rabbits foot thru crucifixes.
Even mental cannabilism; we say we devoured the book. book =thoughts
Then there is the opposite side of the coin – taboos. Don’t touch that or you will be magically contaminated with that nasty attribute.
Hmmm, maybe that was a nickles worth (-:
LOL re. ponder 206 sentence 4 of Answer #443.
“You even might say, when it comes to vegetables, we are kinder to the ones we hate, because we’re much less likely to eat them than the ones we like.”
No doubt.LOL
Stuffed myself with Rad Forgivness food all day yesterday! ( I think it still carries the same earthly calories~ oopsie ) What? The celebrations continue into Monday- eggcelent!
I’m raising a glass to Anzac Day too! So many holidays to know and celebrate. The cannibalism ritual doesn’t seem as enticing. I just envision it being messier than eating something with bbq sauce. It never dawned on me in my youth or adulthood that “Holy Communion” is cannibalism even though the words spoken by the priest “receive the body of Christ” preceeds the act with the recepient replying with a resounding “Amen”. It was a sacred ritual and I justified my participation as a most humble servant who was priveledged to participate even though I could not comprehend the miracle. All I can say Winnie is that its a good thing the minister was not there otherwise you would have been struck by a lightening bolt for getting in that line! …tee hee good fun 🙂
Thanks for the Ken exerpt melody – and your nickels worth of comments Pam-will have to come back when I have more time to explore with you all, its fascinating definitely food for thought.
Oh god Annie the visual I got from your comment was one of the lightning bolt striking, the minister and congregation being knocked to the floor by the concussion of the thunder and Winnie still standing with a rainbow coloured, sparkling cloud of pixie dust floating around her while she bounces up and down, clappind her hands together whilst laughing joyfully and saying Again, please, again.
Lol literally….Annie and Pam…….these analogies are great!! :))
Congrats to Lisi, who is now part of the admins on Jaime’s site! Yay!!!!!
Wow..Finally in the weekday notes…Was Ken {{Cordelia}}} all along???? Makes me thing of him lovingly visiting Jamie’s Mist site in the old days from time to time checking in on us all.
WOW..Temecula notes reading…Was Ken {{Cordelia}}} all along???? Makes me thing of him lovingly visiting Jamie’s Mist site in the old days from time to time checking in on us all.
Cory said I could share this, I read to him the section of Winnie’s post201 about wanting to go to the church communion/cannibalism and Annie’s post 209 and then my post 210 just those none of the others. and he said “I only got a disturbing visual of Jesus’ body being literally cannibalized and wondering who got stuck with the penis.”
Oh the honesty of a child and the clarity that one can have from not being “steeped” in the ritual from birth.
I burst out in spasms of belly laughter for over 2 minutes (Cory timed me) The image he presented was so ludicrous to me and the laughter was tons of ego structure falling away.
Hey Michele –
Where did you get that ken/cordelia inference from ? or am i missing something in Winnie’s notes ? please to expand on your thoughts there ? (:
(if you have the time n inclination ?)
UUmm Michele #212 I’m not getting your point. What is in the Temecula notes? How do they connect? Expand /explain please.
Hey a* A lot of double /triple posting going on and yes CONGRATULATIONS Lisi on being an admin. at Jamie’s place.
Hi Pam – yes, everyone writing in at the same time !!
– me, not for much longer tho – it’s late, and i need my beauty sleep (:
+
just got done with a troublesome work-call – another opportunity to see peace instead of the chaos i just experienced (: need to go cool off so i can see the peace (;
holding an image of you as the perfect, never needed healing in the first place, light that you are a*; rest well.
Cordelia – I had the strong impression it was always Jamie. I think I got this verified somehow.
Good morning beloveds……I`ve got very little time before my laptop battery runs out so i have to be very brief….plenty of internet though {rolls eyes}
loved reading all the comments and mentally hearing Pam`s 2 minute belly laugh..
I think Jamie was Cordelia. I remember once when i felt i had written something too “out there”. I wrote to Jamie apologising and telling him that since i had, i would not come back to the Monastery { on account of i was sure i would not be welcome back}. A day later he wrote back saying he didn`t know what i was talking about – that i hadn`t said anything wrong.
Just to be on the safe side i snuck in the back door and hid in the pantry awhile and settled me nerves with a swig of Ruth-Anne`s Pomegranate wine after which i was ready for anything….. and whaddyathink was the first thing i encountered – a great big hug from Cordelia…….
Re cannibalism – IMAO – okay i can`t say IMHO, becasuse there aint nothing humble about me… so this is my arrogant opinion…tee hee -> i think there is no difference between eating another human and identifying with someone in the football team, for instance. The Course doesn`t mention the word – maybe because it wouldn`t sound very poetic to say “What isn`t love, is cannibalism”.
I remember Ken saying we are just one big mouth. A Cannibal like Hannibal is just a symbol. Everything is going on in the mind, therefore everything is a symbol. The way i figure it, if i am not forgiving, i am cannibalising. I like to be brutally honest with myself. If i think i am happy because i am having a lovely day and feeling happy and peaceful, then still i am cannibalising . Though the sky be blue and the birds are a-singing , still have i taken God`s Day and dressed it up all pretty and nonchalantly, insidiously and secretly devouring The Truth. If my joy comes not from forgiveness, then i am cannibalising……Since i can switch from wrong-mindedness to right-mindedness in a nanosecond without consciously knowing and therefore not really know which mind i am operating in at any given moment or what the fudge anything is about really, i keep it simple, by assuming i am always wrong.
Bring on the lightning bolts ! – bares chest (figuratively speaking}
p.s. Yesterday at the ANZAC service, i loved joining in with the singing of the hymn, just coz i wanted to get into the spirit of things…. aw well shucks, i think it was the sight of all those bagpipers in their swinging kilts . I marched along with them [ on the footpath – don`t worry, no one noticed}..Anyhoo i was greatly amused with the words of the well-known hymn we sang – > “Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord, He is trampling on the vineyards where the grapes of wrath are stored etc”
The people around me weren`t singing but i noticed when i started to, others joined in, …….. and i just loved that joining and secret forgiving and giggling inwardly at the irony of it all….
and afterwards oh boy tea in the back of the hall served out of big old teapots and mismatched cups and saucers and …..corn beef sandwiches? – struth i haven`t had a corn beef sandwich since i was a kid….
big hugs to all
Pam dear – thanks for that peaceful message. i saw it just before i retired for the night, and i could feel my tension loosen up through the reading of it.
Winnie – so true, so true – that fraction of a nanosecond for the right-mind, wrong-mind flip, then back again, and again, and again… (:
I tend to follow the same method – don’t spend any time thinking of which mind i’m in, but lately many more thoughts and lines from the Course keep streaming into the mind. Like “looking for joy in a joyless place” – no wait, that’s not really a Course line is it ? (: but certainly some reflection of it (:
Lesson 116 today(for Bro B, if he’s still interested ? (:)
Review:
* God’s Will is perfect Happiness for me (on the hour)
* I share God’s Will for happiness for me (on the half-hour)
(The review instructions preceding Lesson 111 was particularly helpful for me this time round – each time round the Course material gets clearer and clearer – perhaps the fog is lifting after all !! (:
Peace to all..
a
I have just spent the last half hour smiling and laughing in front of the screen as I read through all your comments! One of the best half hours of my life, I reckon. You guys… heck. What can a fella say?
IMAO – Winnie, I thought that was, “In my awesome opinion”!
Well, you’ve pretty much said it all on cannibalibisism (or summin like that). Everything seemed just right to me. Winnie’s expression of it reminded me of my actual process. When I take the dog out for a walk on a spectacular morning and I have the sensation that says I feel good because 1) I have the time to talk a walk slowly like this, unlike so many other pressured people with obligations, 2) it’s really a beautiful day, 3) I live in really such a beautiful place, etc, then I know that I’m back into separation and into the ‘cannibalistic’ aspect of separation. I’m ‘eating’ the quality of the day and my lifestyle and trying to fill myself with its presence.
IMAAO: (the extra A is for ‘absolutely’!)…
For me this means simply that as of the moment I define my reality as something outside the pure Oneness of Heaven/Love, then I will (obviously) feel a lack of some nature. Consciously or unconsciously, I will automatically set about trying to remedy for this lack, not by reviewing my mistaken choice and returning to the Truth (that there is no possible separation and I am still One at Home), but by seeking for something outside that will seem to give me a “good vibe/warm fuzzy”. It is impossible that anything outside ‘give me’ something (because there is no ‘outside’ and there is no real ‘me’ to ‘get’ something), but it can sure feel that way for a while. And that’s really okay. These are the symbols we use for ourselves on the way Home – and it is all just images, even if we do try to ‘consume’ them.
A quiet countryside does nothing for me really, but it does seem to remind me that quietness exists somewhere. I try to look at what I think the symbol is giving me, and then go for Home, reminding myself that I don’t need the intermediary of a symbol, I can go for the Real McCoy. And then sometimes it’s just easier to sit and cannibalize a nice sunset. It’s just that I can’t fool myself any longer.
I know that as soon as the sun sets and I return to my artificially lit home, that a part of me is going to think something is missing again. Wouldn’t it be nicer if I could look at that sunset, remember what I’d like it to remind me of, then fill my mind and heart with that Present Memory, that living experience of something magnificent in existence to which we belong. Then the outer glory will start to become that much less important and real in my senses, because something else will be coming more alive within my mind. That is what I was really looking for anyway, and when I return to my little house it will be there with me in each of my footsteps, as I open the door, and as I sit in the dimly lit living room. That wonderful living presence is still there. It cannot be absent.
Cannibalism is just another silly dream, but it is good to look at it square on so we can go for Home instead of fooling ourselves into thinking we are really getting something here. Everything here, every experience, small or great, is purely a projection from our mind. That is how we reverse cause and effect and put things in right perspective. The cause of my ‘pleasant experience’ is not the sunset or sundae, but the thought behind it. The object just gives shape to that experience but it has no inherent power of quality. I like to believe in cannibalism because I like to believe that there are real things out there separate from a real me with real powers to make me feel something. Sigh. If all is simply my thought, then what’s the real power of anything outside there? Not too much.
But I know you all know all this. I’m just repeating it for myself coz I still like sunsets… and sundaes. Chocolate. Hot. Fudge. Sundaes. Walnut. Sprinkles. With. Peanut. Butter.
Winnie & Bernard – awesome articulation of the process! Again, right on! Something I would not have been able to write about, yet reading your words, it was – “Yes – yes – yes -that’s it!”
Yesterday was a tough one for me. At first I told myself and Jim (hubby, who also had a rough day) it was about getting back to the time change thing, first Monday in the groove after vacation, feeling tired…and yes – “hateful” of certain brothers yet again! I immediately brought all of these symbols back to my mind – and asked for a different perception. I remembered Ken telling me “it’s just a slight flip…..be patient….” and when the feelings didn’t really go away, *I just realized *I was pushing away love, and chose the wrong teacher in my mind. Stop. (By this I mean I didn’t try to analyze or justify or “think” it through.)
I asked before going to sleep for a different perception, and asked myself, as a decision making mind to please make the choice for the right Teacher – because it’s not okay anymore to continuously choose pain. Peace to such foolishness! Stop the baby business! *I was laughing gently as I said these words, tho vs condemning and/or judging myself. *I was grateful for this.
This morning, I’m back to neutral…and very grateful to and for all of you and the discussion on cannibalism! Whew! *I’m also grateful that I as a decision making mind made the choice for the Teacher of Love vs the teacher of hate!
I, at this moment am trusting the process…. 🙂
Happy Tuesday, and may this day bring all of us closer to the Love in our right mind for many holy instants (hours even?!) at a time!
I remember a time when I missed all the action at the Monastery site; so much to read and so little time to comment on all the postings. I didn’t know I had such a voracious appetite till one day the posting just ended. The birth of the Village was most welcomed but the significantly reduced postings set off a wailing series of hunger pangs that were audible around the globe. Boy it really is all about the Mouth! I’m only recalling it now as a distant memory, ironically a new trigger was set off this morning-today I feel behind in reading the morning postings- dare I say there’s too much to catch up on!
Ohh no I didn’t!!!! That’s almost blasphemous.
Speaking of blasphemous-I’m strapped for time so I can only address one topic and for that I shall choose Corys’ query of who gets the penis? My ‘comedy central’ mind doesn’t know which direction I want to go with that ~ laughter is most definitely the healthiest response. The Catholic Church is losing millions trying to avoid that question – maybe Milton Bradley can create a board game with that name and help them recoup some of their losses. Ok-too soon?
You know I’m not making lite of the severity of these accusations. What I am fascinated with is the opportunity that exists at this time for a great healing. Usually, in this upside down world things work from the top down…a trickle effect (that fits with our concept of time -nice and slow). But we find our generation has upped the ante – picking up speed if you will, and casting a light on these long held societal secrets. So the playing field has been leveled, what works for the individual works for the institution.
There is no where to hide.
That leaves me to fall back on the one question Ken states repeatedly, what is it for?
On the level of form as well as the level of spirit its all about coming together 🙂
Happy Endings
holy cow, Annie – you write well !! that just flowed so easy on the eye, and so easy to read. good stuff.
Morning everybody, just one day off, and as Annie said a mountain of posts to catch up with. Thanks to all of you, lots of really helpful things discussed in just one day.
Winnie, Bernard, Melody, thanks for sharing with us your processed and in reality are our processes. Each time I read something I confirm we are all sharing the same mind. In both directions, ego or Jesus, and it is really comforting as this attest to the truth of what Jesus is trying to teach us.
Nina’s question about cannibalism, really a good one and all the answers, wow, thanks to all.
And Cory’s answer, I joined you in the laughing Pam!!!
Loved your last lines Annie, so I am going to repeat them here: “On the level of form as well as the level of spirit its all about coming together.”
You said it all.
We are coming together
to lit a light.
We are coming together
to put aside the weeds of our path
We are coming together
to join and laugh.
We are coming together
to be just One.
Happy Anniversary!!!!
Great day to all
Lisi
Lisi, yes we are coming together to put away the weeds of our path
I love it when you write in poems –
cannibalism…
I have a l o n g background in shamanistic traditions. To learn with the Course that God is not present in every living thing has been very painful. I have experienced so often that by communicating with a flower, or a mountain, or a wind, or a star, that somehow “i” disappear and only the one is left – or the forms have disappeared, and the one behind it is visible – and the Love in those moments is all-encompassing…hearing that I am cannibalizing in those moments is like saying that when i feel Oneness I am cannibalizing …
when I have these moments when the little I disappears and i somehow merge with nature, I experience how nature is in constant praise for Its Creator. Its not a single blade of grass that is not praising. And cannibalizing has nothing to do with the state of ecstasy that I am in then
And the ecstasy comes when ego disappears, and “me” and “them” and “that” merges – and that would be cannibalizing?
thank you for your open hearts –
Annie #225 Just for clarity Cory wasn’t laughing or being snide, he was disturbed by the image and when I started laughing he wasn’t sure what to make of that either until I could explain it to him.
I hesitated to post it even with his permission but a gentle thought said “How can you expose the lie for what it is if you are not willing to be honest about images and responses to the images?” To be honest I almost didn’t post it for fear of terribly offending someone. And that is what I have been learning lately that I help keep the lie/illusion in place by not being honest by oomission /not sharing.
Ditto a*’s ponder
Nina re.228 “And the ecstasy comes when ego disappears, and “me” and “them” and “that” merges – and that would be cannibalizing?”
No,I don’t think so. If the merging is from the right mind, ego disappearing, It would be Extending from Love like the Course talks about.
Like the sunset Bernard talks about re.223 The sunset it’s self is meaningless as the work book says,because it is an illusion and it’s only meaning is the one we give it and the meaning we “give” it depends on whether we are using Holy Spirit interpretation, extending/ joining in Love, or Ego interpretation, projection/ cannibalizing from a sense of lack.
I find it to be a subtle difference with sunsets and such and easy to do level confusion with; unlike a blatant literal eating of another human body.
<<>>>
Dear Nina, I’m going to take a stab at this along with Pam. To feel a reflection of oneness with a mountain or the wind or a flower or a star – and to have that be a wonderful experience is good. It’s all about purpose. Everything *here, in the illusion is all about purpose. You/we can use the form of these wonderful experiences to get back to our mind, outside of time and space and ask J/HS to show us Their interpretation/perception. The lessons learned by your choice for Them as your Teacher will be as wonderful as your experience of oneness. J/HS, symbols of the memory of Love in our right mind would never deprive us of anything – nor ask us to sacrifice. It’s always about getting from the form (effect) back to the mind (cause) – and choosing the Teacher of Love in our right mind.
I hope this is comforting to you, as that is my intention in writing this. Just keep choosing J/HS in your right mind to be your Teacher – and they will use all of the forms of your experiences for Their purpose – and Their purpose will always be one of comfort and love.
🙂
loving hugs to all xoxoxooxoxoxo
Thanks a lot, Pam and Melody – this is how I have used it too – but is it only me then, who perceive what Ken says about cannibalizing as judging other “religious” experiences and practices as cannibalizing, which certainly does not seem loving to me – what am I missing here?
does he also mean, simply, that it all has to do with which teacher we see the sunset with, or talk with the mountain with? because then i think it would have been much more understandable if he wrote that 🙂
love and hugs and gratefulness
nina
Good morning all – and thank you Winnie for the fabulous notes! It’s like a wonderful surprise every time you post them!
Nina, regarding “what am I missing here?
Does he also mean, simply, that it all has to do with which teacher we see the sunset with, or talk with the mountain with?”
Yes-absolutely-you got it and aren’t “missing a thing!” 🙂
The cannibalizing discussion was used in a different context, as a way to make a point. As you said above, all it’s ever about – with anything of form – is the t/Teacher chosen in the non temporal mind with which to “see!”
Love to all
melody
When an Indian man says ‘holy cow’- well, let’s just say I had to try to not let that go to my ‘ego’ head. I was in an oddly contemplative place when I wrote #225 -like I was viewing a previous life. This cannibalism topic helped flip a long held point of view in the most non-threatening way. For me to see the Catholic Church from a bit of a distance and poke a little fun at it is such growth for me. I could have remained on that path and found my way home eventually-that I have no doubt. However Pam, you made a very good point that its those standing just outside of a mindset who do help us stay true to our purpose. That everything in this reality either points us in one direction or the other. What may have served a mindset a millenium ago to move in one direction may in this particular time-space continuum be sending us back from whence we came.
“And all the while our egos are chortling in glee – ever seen an ego chortle in glee [ all laugh – and i think the joke was on us] ”
mmmm Winnie-me thinks your right about the joke there. If you didn’t add in your two cents about the joke being on us – I would have been the smug one thinking Ken meant all the people not sitting in the lecture hall. …that’s about as subtle as someone throwing a bucket of cold water in your face. What a fearless messenger – ya gotta love him!
Sometimes there’s no other way than being brutally honest.
It’s all good folks.
Godspeed up that ladder.
Nina, I didn’t appreciate that side of the discussion and almost think I should go back and change my post. Just like Pam and Melody are so wonderfully telling us, yes, it is perfectly fine to merge with anything beautiful outside of us while it reminds us of God and something inherently beautiful. That’s all we can eventually do! And I’m certainly not going to leave the countryside and my beautiful sunsets just because I might ‘cannibalize’ one from time to time (okay, every day). The blessing in everything here is that it can ‘speak’ to us of the Love of God, as some of the first lessons in the workbook tell us.
So, please do join with anything beautiful you see in nature or in others. We just need to be aware when we start to use that beauty to differentiate and claim that other things (a weed, an hateful person, a toxic waste site) do not contain that same beauty. That’s why finding holiness in things and places is a two-edged sword. If we’re not careful, we start with that perfect intention of having the flower or sunset remind us of Heaven, and then without hardly noticing, we find ourselves feeling no longer quite as peaceful.
This is often because instead of generalizing the lesson to all things (all things contain this holiness) we have used it to differentiate and find something special. This then becomes a way of judging against other objects, people and places that we claim do not possess this same inherent holiness. In other words, it works perfectly within the Course philosophy to join with the holiness and beauty we find in a flower, a sunset or a sage, as long as we then generalize and include every other plant, place and person within that holiness.
Otherwise that joining can become joining to judge or differentiate, and its effects will ultimately be felt by ourselves as stress, sadness, fear and anger. Unconsciously we will feel that we have judged against other plants (weeds), people (murderers and dictators) and places (plutonium waste sites) and this will make us sad, fearful and angry. All things, all people and places carry the reminder of holiness within them. The spirit of holiness can be absent nowhere. All is one and whole within that Holiness, though the outer appearances can belie that (a lot!). This is the perfection of Reality as it really is. Nothing can ultimately be judged against.
PS I just saw your post above…
I know it might sound sometimes like Ken is judging, but when he calls a particular tradition “cannibalistic”, such as the Eucharist, he is not saying it’s ‘bad’ or ‘wrong’. He is just saying that the motivation behind it is cannibalism, in other words, trying to take something from the outside (another person) and ingest it within. I believe Ken would say it is not wrong but it will simply not bring us the peace or sensation of being ‘filled’ (fulfillment) that we seek. Only Love can ever do that. Yet we will still try every day by many other means.
sitting on the chortling couch with Annie. (-;
Hi everybody, I think Nina’s question about cannibalism is a really good one, and I liked a lot all the answers above. Ken is indeed a loving teacher but we have always to have in mind he is always talking about the mind and not the figures in the dream. And that makes all the difference. As Melody said, Ken is always saying, do anything you want, just know what you are doing, namely, with whom you are looking the event, which one, Jesus or the ego, is your teacher. And he is a loving teacher because he is helping us to heal the problem where it is and not as we settled it up. If he wanting to help the shadows certainly he would be an unloving teacher. But he is teaching us to heal the mind and at the same time he is a most gentle and patient teacher. And of course, he is not judging anybody because he is not talking about form but about how we use form, again with the ego or with Jesus.
Lots of hugs to all,
Lisi
Good Answer Bernard. I too have enjoyed becoming one with both animals and flowers. It was long before I was ACIM student and so of COURSE I made it special. As I progress along this course I’m beginning to understand the generalization process. We want to choose the right teacher so that we can extend rather than exclude so that we have more experiences of unity and less of separation.
Another section of the text that I’m returning to daily.
T-12.I.10. If you would look upon love, which is the world’s reality, how could you do better than to recognize, in every defense against it, the underlying appeal for it? 2 And how could you better learn of its reality than by answering the appeal for it by giving it? 3 The Holy Spirit’s interpretation of fear does dispel it, for the awareness of truth cannot be denied. 4 Thus does the Holy Spirit replace fear with love and translate error into truth. 5 And thus will you learn of Him how to replace your dream of separation with the fact of unity. 6 For the separation is only the denial of union, and correctly interpreted, attests to your eternal knowledge that union is true.
The more I remember to do this the lighter I feel. LUV BEV
Thanks to this topic of discussion – I dreamed of Queequeg the other night!
Call me Tex…..From Hell’s heart I stab at thee! And all that….. Moby Dick!
What a great lot of dreams I’ve had recently – more vivid than almost ever before.
And by the way – they were good dreams….. happy dreams…..
and no one got eaten…….
(unless they really deserved it – lol)
😀
Tex, Iwannahearthedreams!!I was having the most yackydisgustinggodawful dreams, and details are better not mentioned. But Queequeg – bring it on,dear!
“No one got eaten – unless they deserved it.” LOLOL!
Just so right, Lisi. Your thoughts are always so clear.
Bev, that’s such a great passage. We could work with that every day: all we see everywhere is simply the denial of union, everything attests to union, even the denial of it. So oneness is being cried from the rooftops and from every street corner. Every word that does not speak directly of it affirms it be trying to speak of something else, like skirting around the real subject. Every one knows, during those uncomfortable dinners, THE subject that no one is supposed to mention. But in making so many efforts not to speak about it, it becomes the most obvious thing of all.
And remember the “tiny mouse” part of the Course?
……….How weak is fear; how little and how meaningless!…. This is your “enemy;” a frightened mouse which would attack the universe…..
Well, in Latin the word “mouse” comes from the same origins as the word “muscle.”
And the Latin word for “rodent” comes from a derivative of ro+dentia …..
which means “to gnaw.”
Just dog latin, but still interesting.
For such fine Young Cannibals…
(Who drive me crazy)
🙂
Hi All. I’m wondering if there is a place that is appropriate for me to share this. When my dad was here (in body) he was an avid sportsman. I, being raised in the late 60’s kind of decided sports were for geeks – so I never really go into the baseball games, etc. but we did find one sport we could share together and that was the Triple Crown – Kentucky Derby, Preakness and Belmont Stakes. (I can do just about anything for the 2-3 minutes it takes to watch the race!) But I also really loved looking at the horses and we’d all pick a horse for a friendly ‘bet.’ Of course, I’d pick the ones with names that reminded me most of my Source! I just thought of these races and realized they should be coming up so I googled, and sure enough, next weekend is the first – The Kentucky Derby and the sight below lists all the horses. I picked ‘Decisive Moment’ (can you guess why????) Anyway, if anyone would like to follow along – here is the link to the horses running:
http://www.kentuckyderby.com/horses
Love,
Jean
PS – I do think this had a spiritual purpose as it was a symbol of where I could ‘join’ with my Dad!
Crazy luv ya too TexAnne.
I pick “Comma to the Top” – *I’ll leave Y’all to guess why! 🙂 Lol…..
Hey, Melody. That would have been my second choice because at the ‘normal’ church I took my daughters to – (United Church of Christ) they have a saying – ‘Don’t place a period where God has placed a comma’ – meaning He isn’t finished! I liked that – for obvious reasons – they even have ‘comma’ lapel pins you can buy.
But I AM curious why you chose it? Aren’t you going to tell? Or maybe the other villagers know from the history of the village – but I’m curious!
Love,
Jean
Jean…I pick Shakleford. I love Derby, Preakness and Belmont time. Love horses. Hate to admit this to anyone… but as a kid, I
one time memorized all the Kentucky Derby winners up to that time.
My reason for Shakleford? The jocky riding has the name Jesus.
Hugs!
Oh, heck, do I have to choose? Tough decision. I’m fond of “Brilliant Speed” but I don’t think I could refuse “Dialed In”. It just reminds me of what I’m trying to do everyday with J. If this jockey dials in, then it’s won! So it’s going to be a tough race between Shakleford and He-who-dials-in, I think. What fun! The Melbourne Cup in Australia is our big national race day, and everyone becomes a punter.